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DeZwarteRidder
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BTC vandaag in Europa 1050 USD en in China 1100 USD.

In principe ligt het geld op straat bij dit soort grote verschillen, maar in de praktijk is het niet eenvoudig om te arbitreren tussen beurzen in China en daarbuiten.

BTC overmaken naar en uit China is geen probleem, echter USD of EUR overmaken is erg moeilijk.
[verwijderd]
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quote:

DeZwarteRidder schreef op 3 januari 2017 18:40:

[...]

Ripple is wel degelijk een blockchain-systeem:

Ripple, Big Banks Launch First Interbank Blockchain Group for Global ...
www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ripple-big-ba...
23 sep. 2016 - Blockchain startup Ripple has revealed details of a new interbank group that will create the first “rules-based blockchain payments network” for ...

Zoals het persbericht aangeeft is dit een nieuw initiatief van Ripple. Het bestaande initiatief, dat al in 2004 is bedacht, is niet blockchain based.
Hoe dat nieuwe payment network gaat werken (proof of work/proof of stake etc.) weet ik niet. Maar als er een banking group achter zit, betwijfel ik of het echt gedecentraliseerd zal zijn.
DeZwarteRidder
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quote:

Enzo123 schreef op 4 januari 2017 10:10:

[...]
Zoals het persbericht aangeeft is dit een nieuw initiatief van Ripple. Het bestaande initiatief, dat al in 2004 is bedacht, is niet blockchain based.
Hoe dat nieuwe payment network gaat werken (proof of work/proof of stake etc.) weet ik niet. Maar als er een banking group achter zit, betwijfel ik of het echt gedecentraliseerd zal zijn.
Interessant wat je zegt, want als dat klopt is de ripple volkomen ten onrechte gestegen op berichten dat banken de blockchain van Ripple Labs willen gaan gebruiken.

Enzo, bedankt voor je antwoorden en hou ons op de hoogte!
[verwijderd]
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Graag gedaan! Ik weet niet of het ten onrechte is dat Ripple is gestegen, ze hebben een markt, of het netwerk nou gedecentraliseerd is in de ware zin van het woord of niet. Misschien dat iemand die Ripple beter gevolgd heeft dan ik hier iets over kan zeggen.
Omnius
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Er zitten heel veel banken in testfase bij Ripple, enkel een paar kleine banken hebben al iets op de markt. Maar dat laatste is marginaal.

En het netwerk is in principe gecentraliseerd, maar in de praktijk doet Ripple nog bijna alle validaties. Wanneer banken dit serieus gaan oppikken zullen zij ook validatie servers gaan draaien en zal het op dit manier steeds verder gecentraliseerd worden.
Maar decentraal zoals bitcoin, dat niet.
DeZwarteRidder
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quote:

Omnius schreef op 4 januari 2017 10:37:

Er zitten heel veel banken in testfase bij Ripple, enkel een paar kleine banken hebben al iets op de markt. Maar dat laatste is marginaal.

En het netwerk is in principe gecentraliseerd, maar in de praktijk doet Ripple nog bijna alle validaties. Wanneer banken dit serieus gaan oppikken zullen zij ook validatie servers gaan draaien en zal het op dit manier steeds verder gecentraliseerd worden.
Maar decentraal zoals bitcoin, dat niet.
Er staan een paar foutjes in je tekst!

Maar draait de Ripple nu op een blockchain of niet...??
Omnius
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quote:

DeZwarteRidder schreef op 4 januari 2017 10:39:

[...]
Er staan een paar foutjes in je tekst!

Maar draait de Ripple nu op een blockchain of niet...??

ja was nog vroeg vanmorgen ;-)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(payment...
At its core, Ripple is based around a shared, public database or ledger that has its contents decided on by consensus

Consensus ledger[edit]
Ripple relies on a common shared ledger, which is a distributed database storing information about all Ripple accounts. The network is "managed by a network of independent validating servers that constantly compare their transaction records." Servers could belong to anyone, including banks or market makers.[26] Though the Ripple protocol is freeware,[2] Ripple Labs continues to develop and promote the Ripple protocol, which confirms financial transactions via a network of distributed servers. Ripple Labs is currently assisting banks in integrating with the Ripple network.[36] A new ledger is created every few seconds,[89] and the last closed ledger is a perfect record of all Ripple accounts as determined by the network of servers. A transaction is any proposed change to the ledger and can be introduced by any server to the network. The servers attempt to come to consensus about a set of transactions to apply to the ledger, creating a new ‘last closed ledger’.[89]

The consensus process is distributed,[90] and the goal of consensus is for each server to apply the same set of transactions to the current ledger.[89] Servers continually receive transactions from other servers on the network,[89] and the server determines which transactions to apply based on if a transaction came from a specified node in the ‘unique node list’ or UNL.[not in citation given][7] Transactions that are agreed upon by a "supermajority" of peers are considered validated.[89] If the supermajority isn't in consensus, "this implies that transaction volume was too high or network latency too great for the consensus process to produce consistent proposals," then the consensus process is again attempted by the nodes. Each round of consensus reduces disagreement, until the supermajority is reached.[89] The intended outcome of this process is that disputed transactions are discarded from proposals while widely accepted transactions are included.[89] While users may assemble their own UNL nodes and have full control over which nodes they trust, Ripple Labs acknowledges that most people will use the default UNL supplied by their client.[not in citation given][7]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockchain_(dat...

Dus strikt genomen is Ripple geen blockchain als ik het zo lees, omdat Ripple niet met blocks werkt, maar ik denk dat de term blockchain ook wordt (mis/)gebruikt voor vergelijkbare gedecentraliseerde database zoals ripple.

Maar of het nu wel een echte blockchain is of niet volgens definitie, interesseert mij persoonlijk niet zo heel veel. Zolang het protocol maar werkt en succesvol wordt. Ik ben niet zo'n purist.
Arie S
0
even niet gekeken, moest werken maar schrik van de koers . Waar gaat dit naar toe. Kan ook zo zijn dat we binnenkort klapper naar beneden krijgen
DeZwarteRidder
0
quote:

Arie S schreef op 4 januari 2017 19:24:

even niet gekeken, moest werken maar schrik van de koers . Waar gaat dit naar toe. Kan ook zo zijn dat we binnenkort klapper naar beneden krijgen
Natuurlijk krijgen we een klapper naar beneden, na zo'n supersnelle stijging, de vraag is wanneer.
DeZwarteRidder
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quote:

DeZwarteRidder schreef op 4 januari 2017 19:31:

[...]
Natuurlijk krijgen we een klapper naar beneden, na zo'n supersnelle stijging, de vraag is wanneer.
De bitcoin beleeft ‘flash crash’ (voor de zoveelste keer)
Business Insider Nederland

Donderdag 5 januari 2017: de bitcoin zakt flink weg tot onder de 1.000 dollar.

Dagenlang stonden bitcoin-beleggers te juichen. Maar donderdag 5 januari bewees de cryptomunt weer eens dat de vergelijking met ‘normale’ valuta nog lang niet opgaat. Binnen een uur ging er, om onduidelijke redenen, pakweg 20 procent van waarde van de bitcoin af. Vervolgens won de bitcoin in een mum van tijd zo’n 7 procent.

Wie medio december bitcoin had gekocht keek tot donderdag aan tegen een rendement van zo’n 30 procent tegenover munten als de dollar en de euro. Voer voor speculanten!

Het zouden vooral Chinese beleggers zijn geweest die de waarde van de bitcoin flink omhoog duwden tot boven de 1.000 dollar, omdat ze alternatieven zoeken voor de relatieve zwakke yuan.

Maar voor wie snel geld denkt te verdienen met bitcoin – een digitale munt die via computernetwerken buiten overheden om wordt beheerd – is er een belangrijke waarschuwing: de koers schommelt hevig. Om een toprendement te halen moet je op de juiste momenten in- en uitstappen – iets wat maar weinig beleggers lukt.

Volg de koers van de bitcoin op finanzen.nl
Donderdag rond het middaguur stortte de bitcoin plots in, van een niveau van boven de 1.030 dollar per bitcoin tot onder de 900 dollar per bitcoin. Rond 14.40 uur Nederlandse tijd trad overigens alweer een even opmerkelijk herstel in, naar een niveau van circa 975 dollar, om daarna weer te zakken tot 950 dollar.
DeZwarteRidder
0
Technology News | Thu Jan 5, 2017 | 3:42pm EST
Bitcoin plunges as much as 20 percent as Chinese yuan soars

REUTERS/Arnd Wiegmann
A sticker reading ''Bitcoin accepted here'' is displayed at the entrance of the Stadthaus town hall in Zug, Switzerland, August 30, 2016. Picture taken August 30, 2016.

By Jemima Kelly | LONDON

A dramatic rally in digital currency bitcoin came to a spectacular end on Thursday with a plunge of up to 20 percent as China's yuan rose sharply - further evidence of an intriguing inverse relationship between the pair.

Bitcoin had gained more than 40 percent in two weeks to hit a three-year high of $1,139.89 on Wednesday, just shy of its all-time record of $1,163 on the Europe-based Bitstamp exchange. But it dived as low as $885.41 on Thursday as the yuan jumped by over 1 percent in offshore trading and headed for its strongest two-day performance on record.

Chinese exchanges have reported high volumes of trading of the web-based "cryptocurrency" over the past year, during which time the yuan has shed almost 7 percent, its worst annual performance since 1994, while bitcoin has surged 125 percent, outperforming all other currencies for a second year in a row.

Bitcoin can used for moving money across the globe quickly and anonymously, and operates outside the control of any central authority. That makes it attractive to those wanting to get around capital controls, such as in China, and also to investors who are worried about a devaluation in their currency.

"Given that the yuan's weakness over recent months seemed to correlate with bitcoin's strength more than any other currency, it's no surprise that bitcoin traders have reacted the way they have to the yuan's sudden strength today," said Paul Gordon, co-founder of London-based Quantave, a firm seeking to make it easier for investors to access digital currency exchanges.

Exchanges in China say they account for more than 90 percent of global bitcoin trading, which would help explain why a shift in Chinese demand would sharply affect the price.

But many bitcoin experts say Chinese exchanges overstate their volumes in the digital currency, and attribute sharp moves to speculation by, for example, U.S.-based hedge funds.

Some said bitcoin's fall was a natural reaction to the speed of its previous rise. It is still up more than 50 percent on three months ago, when it was trading at around $600,

"If something goes up very rapidly...people make a lot of money, and at some point they’re going to want to sell, in order to realize their gains," said Marco Streng, CEO of bitcoin mining and trading firm Genesis Mining.

By 1645 GMT (11:45 a.m. ET), bitcoin had recovered some of its earlier losses to trade down almost 15 percent on the day at around $950, still leaving it on course for its worst performance in a year.

On some digital currency exchanges - of which there are dozens - bitcoin did reach record highs late on Wednesday.

"Once we broke through the nominal all-time high, liquidity dried up - no shorts, no sellers, which means a volatile little bubble formed quickly," said Peter Smith, CEO of London-based Blockchain, the biggest bitcoin wallet-provider globally.
Omnius
0
quote:

DeZwarteRidder schreef op 5 januari 2017 16:34:

[...]

De bitcoin beleeft ‘flash crash’ (voor de zoveelste keer)
Business Insider Nederland

Donderdag 5 januari 2017: de bitcoin zakt flink weg tot onder de 1.000 dollar.

Dagenlang stonden bitcoin-beleggers te juichen. Maar donderdag 5 januari bewees de cryptomunt weer eens dat de vergelijking met ‘normale’ valuta nog lang niet opgaat. Binnen een uur ging er, om onduidelijke redenen, pakweg 20 procent van waarde van de bitcoin af. Vervolgens won de bitcoin in een mum van tijd zo’n 7 procent.

Wie medio december bitcoin had gekocht keek tot donderdag aan tegen een rendement van zo’n 30 procent tegenover munten als de dollar en de euro. Voer voor speculanten!

Het zouden vooral Chinese beleggers zijn geweest die de waarde van de bitcoin flink omhoog duwden tot boven de 1.000 dollar, omdat ze alternatieven zoeken voor de relatieve zwakke yuan.

Maar voor wie snel geld denkt te verdienen met bitcoin – een digitale munt die via computernetwerken buiten overheden om wordt beheerd – is er een belangrijke waarschuwing: de koers schommelt hevig. Om een toprendement te halen moet je op de juiste momenten in- en uitstappen – iets wat maar weinig beleggers lukt.

Volg de koers van de bitcoin op finanzen.nl
Donderdag rond het middaguur stortte de bitcoin plots in, van een niveau van boven de 1.030 dollar per bitcoin tot onder de 900 dollar per bitcoin. Rond 14.40 uur Nederlandse tijd trad overigens alweer een even opmerkelijk herstel in, naar een niveau van circa 975 dollar, om daarna weer te zakken tot 950 dollar.
Je moet juist niet te vaak in en uitstappen.. Gewoon stukje voor stukje bijkopen en vasthouden voor lange termijn. Niets moeilijks aan. Lijkt net op beleggen..
DeZwarteRidder
0

Bitcoin Extends Loss After China’s Central Bank Warns Investors
by Justina Lee
and Emma Dai
9 januari 2017 05:37 CET 9 januari 2017 11:16 CET

PBOC officials tell bitcoin platform to rectify issues
Bitcoin surged 120% in 2016 as yuan depreciation quickened

Bitcoin extended Friday’s tumble amid concern China will tighten rules on the digital currency to curb capital outflows.

The cryptocurrency slid 1.4 percent to $888 at 5:43 p.m. in Hong Kong, after falling as much as 10 percent on Friday. The People’s Bank of China’s Shanghai branch said in a statement late Friday that its officials, along with the city’s financial office, asked bitcoin trading platform BTCChina.com to conduct self-checks and rectify any problems. The State Administration of Foreign Exchange has scrutinized some major bitcoin exchanges, possibly to investigate the use of the digital asset to evade capital controls, QQ.com reported.

Bitcoin rallied since early 2015 as Chinese buyers turned to alternative assets to hedge against the weakening yuan and take cash out of the nation. By buying bitcoin onshore and selling it offshore for another currency, investors can evade the tightening scrutiny on fund outflows. Other than a ban on financial institutions’ involvement, Chinese regulators had largely taken a hands-off approach on the cryptocurrency.

“Bitcoin is one of the rocks they haven’t turned yet in terms of controlling the flows,” said Zennon Kapron, managing director of Shanghai-based consulting firm Kapronasia. “It’s inevitable that there’s going to be something but the question is what the regulations will be when it happens.”

This is not the first time China’s government has sent bitcoin tumbling. In 2013, it banned financial institutions from handling bitcoin transactions, sparking a slide in price. The PBOC reiterated that stance in Friday’s statement, saying that bitcoin is a virtual commodity without the legal status of a currency. It characterized recent bitcoin moves as “unusual.”

Bitcoin has become increasingly volatile since rallying to a record-high $1,162 on Thursday, slumping 11 percent that day after the yuan jumped. In December it surged 28 percent.

Policy makers are likely to require more reporting from bitcoin exchanges and incorporate their flows into the monitoring of the $50,000 quota Chinese citizens are given to convert yuan to foreign exchange -- though it will be more challenging to do so with the decentralized cryptocurrency, said Kapron.

BTCC -- which runs BTCChina.com, one of the most active Chinese exchanges -- said in a statement on its website that it works closely with the PBOC to ensure that it’s operating in accordance with Chinese laws.

Huobi, another major Chinese platform, will also conduct strict self-checks as required by regulators and it plans to work with other bitcoin firms to establish industry standards, chief operating officer Zhu Jiawei said in a message. The industry can benefit from balanced, risk-based regulation, Star Xu, chief executive officer of OkCoin Co., said in an e-mail. The PBOC’s Beijing and Shanghai branches met with representatives of major bitcoin exchanges, including OkCoin, on Friday to discuss their operations, he said.

“The policy risks of bitcoin trading in China are higher” because the nation has capital controls, said Dong Dengxin, director of Finance and Securities Research Institution at Wuhan University of Science and Technology. “If bitcoin trading disturbs China’s financial order, there’s a possibility it will be deemed illegal or banned.”

Bitcoin surged 120 percent in 2016 as the yuan dropped the most since 1994 and Chinese bonds and equities declined, though its total value of around $15 billion still pales in comparison with most mainstream asset classes in the nation.

The digital asset traded at 6,188 yuan ($892) on Chinese firm OKCoin Co.’s platform, around parity to the dollar price based on spot rates. As recently as Friday morning, bitcoin’s yuan price had traded at a premium to its dollar price.

“Until there’s more clarity over what the PBOC is planning or what exactly they mean, I think it will be difficult for bitcoin price to retrace the rally,” said Kapron.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-...
DeZwarteRidder
0
China probes bitcoin exchanges amid capital flight fears

Investors doubt cryptocurrency can facilitate large-scale asset transfers
by: Gabriel Wildau in Shanghai

Chinese regulators have taken steps to ensure bitcoin is not used to facilitate capital flight, even as investors in the cryptocurrency say they doubt it is being used to transfer large amounts of cash out of China.

The apparent correlation between a depreciating renminbi and bitcoin’s price surge in recent months has prompted suspicion that the virtual asset is contributing to outflows. Bitcoin’s Chinese price rose 145 per cent in 2016, as the renminbi suffered its worst year on record, weakening 6.5 per cent. Renminbi transactions accounted for 98 per cent of global bitcoin trading volume over the past six months, according to data from bitcoinity.org.

The People’s Bank of China met with the country’s three largest bitcoin exchanges last week to remind them to “strictly” follow relevant regulations on risk control and to “clean up” any irregular practices, according to announcements by the central bank’s Beijing and Shanghai branches. Bitcoin has fallen 9 per cent since the PBoC announcements.

China’s central bank triggered a market rout in 2013 when it decreed that bitcoin was not a real currency and forbade banks from handling bitcoin transactions. But Chinese exchange operators have downplayed the most recent meetings, saying they don’t signal a renewed crackdown.

“We’ve been meeting with them regularly over the last two to three years. The only difference is that they talked about it this time,” Bobby Lee, chief executive of BTC China, the world’s largest exchange by trading volume over the past month, told the Financial Times. “I think their intent is to remind the world, ‘The PBoC is on top of this. Don’t let the price go crazy’. That’s their prerogative.”

In meetings with Huobi.com and OKCoin, the PBoC instructed the two exchanges not to mention renminbi depreciation in its marketing materials, according to Caixin, a respected business news website. Caixin also reported that the State Administration of Foreign Exchange had “surveyed” Chinese bitcoin exchanges about their business models in recent days, citing multiple industry sources. Huobi and OKCoin declined to comment.

Yet seasoned bitcoin investors say that existing regulations make the virtual currency impractical for facilitating large-scale fund transfers. Chinese bitcoin platforms require investors to link a domestic bank card to their accounts, which means transactions are not anonymous.

"If you want to do a few hundred thousand renminbi, it’s no problem. But there’s a limit on volumes. All the Chinese domestic websites are regulated. If the amount is too large, it will attract attention,” said Yi Lihua, founder of Unishares, a Shanghai-based venture capital fund that invests in blockchain-related companies.

Experts also point to pricing patterns as evidence that capital flight is not driving the market. If bitcoin were widely used for capital flight, they say, the price gap between renminbi and foreign-currency exchanges would widen as Chinese investors bought bitcoins on local exchanges and cashed them out on foreign exchanges. But while bitcoin’s price on dollar-based exchanges is consistently lower than its renminbi price, this gap has not noticeably increased over the past year, even as Chinese capital outflows have accelerated.

Moreover, prices on several other non-USD exchanges are actually higher than the renminbi price.

"If cash were really leaving China for western markets via crypto en masse, I would have a lot better spreads buying bitcoin in Canada, that’s for sure,” said David Lancashire, founder of Popup Chinese, a Beijing-based online language learning community. Mr Lancashire receives bitcoin payments from foreign customers as a cheaper and more secure alternative to PayPal.

Liquidity presents another challenge to large-scale fund transfers. The total supply of bitcoin in the world is only about $15bn, less than the valuation-adjusted $26bn decline in China’s foreign exchange reserves in December alone. Experts say that on non-Chinese exchanges, where volumes are low, any attempt to cash out a large sum would push up the price significantly.

“If you moved a Beijing-apartment-sized chunk of change to Australia, it would be hard to sell without taking the market. But if you do it slowly, then you are really exposed to price changes,” said an Australian bitcoin investor living in Beijing.

Additional reporting by Ma Nan

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search...
voda
1
Banken werken aan blockchain-app voor handelsfinanciering mkb

KBC, Rabobank en vijf andere Europese banken.

(ABM FN-Dow Jones) Zeven Europese banken gaan samen de blockchain-technologie gebruiken voor een gezamenlijk platform om handel te vergemakkelijken voor kleinere en middelgrote bedrijven. Dit maakten de banken donderdag bekend.

Deutsche Bank, HSBC, KBC, Natixis, Rabobank, Société Générale en UniCredit tekenden de principe-overeenkomst om het nieuwe product te ontwikkelen. Het product krijgt de naam Digital Trade Chain (DTC).

DTC is gebaseerd op een IT-programma van KBC voor handelsfinanciering en aanvoerketens dat de eerste testfase heeft doorstaan en vorig jaar een prijs won.

Het product zou de betrokken partijen bij een handelstransactie, namelijk de koper, de bank van de koper, de verkoper, de bank van de verkoper en de vervoerder, naadloos op elkaar moeten laten aansluiten, via internet en mobiele apparaten. Dit moet het makkelijker maken om internationale handelstransacties te beheren, te volgen en te zekeren, omdat het administratieve papierwerk aanzienlijk vermindert.

Het consortium zal onderzoeken of een versie van het programma kan worden ontwikkeld dat toepasbaar is op grotere schaal. Het idee is om met zeven banken te beginnen en zo voldoende massa op te bouwen.

Door: ABM Financial News.

info@abmfn.nl

Redactie: +31(0)20 26 28 999

Copyright ABM Financial News. All rights reserved

(END) Dow Jones Newswires
DeZwarteRidder
0
Daimler Acquires Bitcoin Friendly PayCash Europe

Posted on 10:00 pm January 17, 2017 Author GauthamCategories Bitcoin News, News
12

Financial services is a lucrative industry segment. With increasing interest in fintech and new-age payments systems, companies are trying to boost their existing portfolios through mergers and acquisitions. In one such instance, Daimler AG, the parent company of Mercedes-Benz, has taken over PayCash Europe.

According to an announcement in one of the automotive magazines, Daimler Financial Services AG will be introducing its own payment service called Mercedes Pay. The acquisition of PayCash Europe will help Daimler build upon the platform’s existing infrastructure.

PayCash Europe is one of the few payment processing services to support Bitcoin. In addition to Bitcoin, it also supports all leading credit and debit cards, Sofort, PayPal, AliPay, SEPA and more. The company’s services are being availed by a range of businesses including digital marketplaces, crowdfunding platforms, and e-commerce sites.

Daimler’s press release quotes one of the board members, Bodo Uebber saying,

“Mercedes Pay is a fundamental component of our mobility and digitization strategy. Daimler’s new payment system underscores our ambition, as a leading provider of digital mobility services, to make the products and services we offer even more appealing.”
Once Mercedes Pay is functional, it will provide a comfortable and secure channel for customers to pay for the company’s mobility offerings and services. Some of the supported offerings include its car sharing service – car2go, mytaxi taxi application and also its international financing service.

Even though PayCash Europe supports Bitcoin, it is unclear about whether Mercedes Pay will continue the trend or not. However, with the automobile industry inching towards autonomous and intelligent vehicles, Daimler could gradually shift its focus towards blockchain technology as well.

The future looks bright in the automotive sector at the moment. The rise of sharing economy, driven by the likes of Uber and Airbnb combined with a network of autonomous vehicles can benefit from the power of bitcoin and blockchain technology. Daimler may be heading in the right direction after all.

Ref: Automotive World | Image: NewsBTC
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