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die renteverlaging in de USA; komt die wel ?

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quote:

Pacito schreef:

Ja, staan volkomen los van elkaar.
Staat niet volkomen los van elkaar. 't Is allebei fruit.

Maar je kunt ze niet direkt met elkaar vergelijken.

Of wel, je kunt alles met elkaar vergelijken.

Maar om te zien of een appel uitzonderlijk is is het vaak beter om deze te vergelijken met andere appels dan met peren. Anders lijkt elke appel uitzonderlijk.
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quote:

Mr Greenspan schreef:

[quote=mickey74]
En wat gebeurd er nu als ze helemaal niet verlagen, maar hem laten staan of zelfs verhogen?

[/quote]

Verhogen??? jij zit zeker goed in de put's?
nee heb zelfs niets in portf,had mijn geld prive ergens anders voor nodig wat voor mij ook een goede belegging in de toekomst is.
Momenteel ben ik aan het wachten tot dat ik op een goed moment in kan stappen.

en ik vewacht ook dat het niet veel uitmaakt wat ze doen zakken doen we toch op de ene manier een beetje sneller als met de andere manier
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Bloomberg:

grootste koopjes: Samsung. Lukoil. Franse banken.

Zwaarst gedipt in de crash en nu dus spotgoedkoop.
craasie
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Nou, lukoil??? franse banken meer als de engelse en nederlandse?? en samsung meer als philips??
heeft bloomberg zeker een jaar terug geschreven!
craasie
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Je hebt gelijk heb het gelezen;Credit Agricole, Lukoil, Samsung Battered Into Cheapest Stocks

By Michael Tsang and Daniel Hauck

Sept. 10 (Bloomberg) -- French banks, South Korean semiconductor makers and Russian energy companies have become the world's biggest bargains after stock markets around the world lost more than $5 trillion in value.

Credit Agricole SA, France's second-largest lender, trades at a 19 percent discount to Citigroup Inc., the world's biggest financial services company, data compiled by Bloomberg show. Samsung Electronics Co., the top maker of memory chips, was valued last month at the cheapest versus U.S. chipmakers since July 2004. OAO Lukoil, Russia's No. 1 independent oil company, is 34 percent less expensive than Exxon Mobil Corp.

The industries were indiscriminately punished when the Morgan Stanley Capital International AC World Index tumbled 12 percent between July 13 and Aug. 16, according to Credit Suisse Group, Putnam Investments and ING Groep NV. As contagion from defaults on U.S. subprime mortgages drove credit costs to the highest since January 2001, their stock prices compared with forecast earnings fell to between 7.21 times and 8.62 times, Bloomberg data show.

``The stock market was painted with a broad brush and investors threw the baby out with the bathwater,'' said Robert Weissenstein, the New York-based chief investment officer for private banking in the Americas at Credit Suisse, which oversees $1.33 trillion. French banks are ``a perfect example'' of a group that was pummeled unfairly, he said.

Buying Opportunity

Stocks retreated from all-time highs in July after late payments on U.S. subprime mortgages drove foreclosures to a record, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association in Washington. Borrowing costs between banks jumped to almost a seven-year high.

European banks and brokerages slumped after BNP Paribas SA, France's largest bank, halted withdrawals last month from three funds invested in subprime-linked securities. Paris-based BNP, which has since reopened the funds, lost 12 percent this year.

French commercial bank stocks are now the cheapest among those in developed European economies, valued at a median 7.96 times forecast profit, the Bloomberg data show. A gauge of banks in the MSCI France Index, which has fallen 21 percent since its 2007 high on May 11, trades at 7.94 times reported profit, the lowest in at least 12 years.

``You have to go back in some cases more than 10 years to find valuations like these,'' said John Ewart, who helps oversee $5.7 billion at Alliance Trust Plc in Dundee, Scotland. ``It's an opportunity to buy.''

Credit Agricole, Natixis

Credit Agricole and Natixis SA, France's second- and fourth- largest banks, are bargains, according to New York-based Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., which raised its rating on Credit Agricole's shares to ``overweight'' last week.

The Paris-based companies reported profits on Aug. 30 that beat analysts' estimates. Credit Agricole said subprime defaults will have a ``limited impact,'' while Natixis said it should meet full-year profit goals, including any losses from mortgages to people with poor credit histories.

Credit Agricole trades at 8.1 times projected earnings and Natixis is valued at 8.3 times. That compares with 10 times and 9.36 times estimated profits at New York-based Citigroup and JPMorgan Chase & Co., the third-largest U.S. bank.

Credit Agricole last month traded at a 37 percent discount to Citigroup, the widest since at least 2004, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Investors paid up for Citigroup even as New York-based Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. said the bank may forfeit as much as $1 billion of third-quarter profit because of mortgage defaults and losses on high-yield debt.

Stock Rebound

European banks were ``unfairly colored with the brush of subprime as though it was going to impact a much bigger percentage of their business than it is likely to,'' said David Joy, who helps oversee $160 billion as chief market strategist in Minneapolis at RiverSource Investments LLC, a unit of Ameriprise Financial Inc.

Stocks recovered some of their losses, with the U.S., European and Asian markets rising within 6.8 percent, 9.3 percent and 5.9 percent of their all-time highs. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index fell 1.4 percent last week to 1,453.55, while the Dow Jones Stoxx 600 Index lost 2.8 percent. The MSCI Asia-Pacific Index advanced 0.2 percent.

The most expensive industries are now health-care and consumer companies in Asia's emerging markets, the Bloomberg data show. The groups on average were valued between 33.9 and 34.9 times estimated profit. The median for all 12,948 companies tracked globally by Bloomberg stood at 15.1 times estimated profit.

Samsung and Intel

Cheaper valuations are a reason to be ``overweight'' Asian technology stocks, Zurich-based UBS AG said last week. A group of 15 South Korean chipmakers is valued at an average of 9.53 times estimated earnings. That's the least expensive among 46 Asian technology groups tracked by Bloomberg, excluding those with fewer than three members.

Samsung Electronics is valued at 10.9 times earnings and last month traded at the biggest discount to the Philadelphia Semiconductor Index since July 2004. The measure, which consists of 19 U.S.-traded chip-related companies including Santa Clara, California-based Intel Corp., ended last week with a price-to- earnings ratio of 38.7.

Intel, the world's biggest semiconductor maker, is valued at 28.6 times earnings.

Hynix Semiconductor Inc., the world's second-largest memory chipmaker, is even cheaper than Samsung. Ichon, South Korea-based Hynix is valued at 6.85 times profit. Both companies, which had second-quarter profit declines, forecast a rebound in chip prices in the second half as computer makers raise orders.

`Massive Demand'

``Things look better for the tech stocks,'' said Jorry Noeddekaer, a London-based manager at New Star Asset Management Ltd., which oversees about $50 billion, including shares of Samsung. ``There's going to be massive demand in the future.''

Eastern European energy companies are the cheapest among 40 emerging-market industry groups tracked by Bloomberg, with an average price-to-earnings ratio of 7.69, based on estimated profits. Russian oil producers are the least expensive after the government raised taxes on petroleum exports.

Lukoil, based in Moscow, trades at 8.3 times estimated profit, compared with 12.5 for Irving, Texas-based Exxon. The Russian oil producer is valued at $3.30 for every barrel of proven oil reserves, while Exxon and Paris-based Total SA, Europe's third-biggest oil company, trade at more than $13 per barrel, according to UBS.

`Unfair Ways'

OAO TNK-BP Holding, the Russian oil venture of London-based BP Plc, trades at 6.62 times estimated profit and is rated a ``buy'' at Citigroup and UBS.

``There are a lot of good plays in Russian oil,'' said Uri Landesman, the New York-based manager of international equities at ING Investment Management, which oversees about $400 billion, including shares of Moscow-based TNK-BP. The company ``is a dirt cheap stock,'' he said.

Hayes Miller at Baring Asset Management says the risk Russia's government may take over publicly traded companies or change rules that favor state-owned enterprises outweighs the potential returns for shareholders.
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quote:

craasie schreef:

Nou, lukoil??? franse banken meer als de engelse en nederlandse?? en samsung meer als philips??
heeft bloomberg zeker een jaar terug geschreven!
Wat dacht je van ING. Bij harry mens hadden ze het erover dat ING nog wel eens kon weglopen met de ABN als de rest de biedingen intrekken of verlagen....
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Typisch amerikaans. De duurste is het voorbeeld. Wordt het geen tijd die duurdere te verkopen?
Pacito
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mikezwet schreef:

Wat dacht je van ING. Bij harry mens hadden ze het erover dat ING nog wel eens kon weglopen met de ABN als de rest de biedingen intrekken of verlagen....
Een tijdje terug heb ik juist het tegen over gestelde gepost. Toen was ing veel goedkoper als ABN. En het had mij niet verbaasd als ing werd overgenomen door abn gezien de huidige koersen. Maar ook jou mogelijkheid is niet uit te sluiten. Het enige is wel dat het trio met een 4% belang blijft zitten waar ze dan eingelijk niets meer aan hebben. Een lager nieuw bod lijkt dan meer voor de hand vanwege uitzonderlijke markt omstandigheden.
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als je dit stukje goed leest denk ik niet dat ze echt van plan zijn de rente te verlagen.(maar niets is zeker ik kan het ook verkeerd hebben gelezen)

Governor Randall S. Kroszner
At the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, Conference on the Asian Financial Crisis Revisited, San Francisco, California
September 6, 2007
Analyzing and Assessing Banking Crises

Good morning. I am delighted to be speaking to you today at the second of a pair of excellent conferences that the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco has organized on the tenth anniversary of the Asian financial crisis. Janet Yellen and her staff deserve kudos for focusing our attention on this important topic and I feel honored for the invitation to speak today.1

Introduction
Before moving to the main topic, I would like to reinforce remarks made last week by Chairman Bernanke on the recent turbulence in financial markets. In the United States we have seen a fairly sharp downturn in housing markets, and in recent weeks there have been growing investor concerns about mortgage credit performance, particularly with subprime mortgages. If current conditions persist in mortgage markets, the demand for homes could weaken further, with possible implications for the broader economy. And financial stress has not been limited just to mortgage markets, but has spread to other markets. In general, a shift in risk attitudes has interacted with heightened concerns about credit risks and uncertainty about how to evaluate those risks. Fortunately, this recent period of turbulence in financial markets has occurred at a time when U.S. commercial banks are strongly capitalized, reflecting years of robust profits.

As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve seeks to promote general financial stability and to help to ensure that financial markets operate in an orderly manner. Accordingly, the Federal Reserve has taken some steps in recent weeks to provide liquidity and to promote the orderly functioning of markets. We continue to follow these developments in financial markets closely, particularly those that may have a broad impact on real economic activity.

Today I plan to offer some thoughts about ways to analyze and assess the impact of banking crises on real economic activity. Others at this conference will be addressing some of the specifics of the Asian financial crisis in 1997-98 and the status of economies and financial systems of Asian countries today, so I believe I can best contribute by setting up a conceptual and empirical framework that can be applied to various types of financial crises, including Asia in 1997-98.

Much of what I plan to discuss is based on a paper I published earlier this year with colleagues at the International Monetary Fund and World Bank, Luc Laeven and Daniela Klingbiel, titled "Banking Crises, Financial Dependence, and Growth".2 In particular, this research focuses on a key question for policy, namely, through what channels can financial turmoil have an impact on real economic activity? We study the effect of different types of crises on the performance of various sectors and firms in economies with differing levels of development of their banking and financial systems. Surprisingly, little systematic empirical work had been done detailing the mechanisms by which financial crises can generate problems in the real economy.3 I will provide a brief overview of these results and then draw some lessons that policymakers might keep in mind when considering ways to help prevent and mitigate future crises.

As a final introductory thought, I want to note that my remarks today on banking crises relate to research conducted on a range of countries, many of them emerging-market countries, and are not a commentary on current financial conditions or on the health of the U.S. banking system, which, as I noted above, is quite good.

Framework for Assessing and Analyzing Banking Crises
Financial crises can assume various forms. I am going to focus primarily on financial crises involving the banking sector and do so for several reasons. First, banks play a prominent role in the credit intermediation process in most countries, providing funding to firms beyond the cash flow provided by their normal operations. Banks also typically serve as custodian of a significant portion of household saving. In many Asian countries, for example, banks play a key role in channeling credit to firms--particularly those firms not able to acquire funding from capital markets or other sources--and also hold substantial consumer deposits.

In addition, much of the literature on financial crises indicates that crises involving the banking sector can lead to disruptions in the real economy. The definition of banking crisis I will use today, consistent with the definition in our recent paper, is an episode during which the capital of the banking sector has been depleted due to loan losses, resulting in a negative net worth of the banking sector.4 Therefore, the use of the term "banking crisis" in our research refers to major disruptions in a country's banking system, not just minor downturns or disturbances. By focusing on banking crises in our research paper, we were able to isolate the impact of banks on the provision of credit and liquidity to firms during times of distress. I believe that combining this type of empirical research on banking crises with practical experience from bank supervisors and market participants, such as those attending this conference, helps us all to understand and address the problems associated with banking crises--and perhaps even to help to prevent them.

Much work has been done on how financial intermediaries and financial markets facilitate investment by firms and, hence, promote economic growth.5 Financial intermediaries and financial markets are generally thought to reduce information asymmetry problems that can make raising external funds difficult and expensive for firms. Well-functioning and well-developed financial intermediaries and markets thus should particularly benefit firms that rely most heavily on external funding to finance their growth.6 Conversely--and this is the novel aspect of our research--crises in the financial sector thus should have a disproportionately negative impact on firms that rely heavily on external sources of finance.

In particular, we investigate whether the impact of a banking crisis on sectors dependent on external sources of financing varies with the level of development of the financial system. If the banking system is the key element allowing firms that depend heavily upon external funding sources to finance their growth, then an impairment of these intermediaries--in a system where such intermediaries are important--should have a disproportionate contractionary impact on precisely those sectors that flourished in "normal" times, due to their reliance on banks. Thus, an important element of our analysis is the level of development of a country's financial system, that is, whether it is "deep" (more developed) or "shallow" (less developed).7

To address these issues, we gathered data from thirty-eight developed and developing countries that have experienced a banking crisis during the last quarter century.8 We documented clear linkages between the state of the banking system and the performance of the real economy. More specifically, we find that in well-developed and deep
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Pfft DX: 79.679
Als de drollar niet heel snel wat herstel laat zien, idd geen rate cut m.i.
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Ik denk dat de rente niet omlaag zal gaan, luister eens naar kees de kort op bnr van vandaag 11/9

Misschien zal de FED het besluit uitstellen om zo niemand teleur te stellen en alles nog even af te kijken ??

Ik denk zoiezo dat we na het besluit gaan dalen... fundamenteel is er toch wel iets mis natuurlijk.
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ik ben ook van mening dat er niet zomaar een renteverlaging komt, alleen alleen al voor de record olieprijzen zal dat al moeilijk kunnen worden.
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Opvallend, niet ?

Bernanke's scholarly speech did not address the future course of interest rates in the United States nor the state of the U.S. economy.
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Nee, geen directe verwijzingen. Maar tussen de regels door:
"The global savings glut" zorgt nog steeds voor relatief lage rentetarieven.
De rentetarieven van de laatste jaren waren onhoudbaar laag.
En als laatste, de aansporing aan ami's meer te gaan sparen. En hoe doe je dat? Niet door de rentetarieven omlaag te brengen...

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natuurlijk onmogelijk om te voorspellen wat komen gaat, maar velen denken dat de FED er is om de gezinnen uit de nood te helpen, wel wat onverschillig, want het is diezelfde FED die ze in problemen gebracht heeft, waarom zou ie ze dan uit de shitt helpen.
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VS stijgt lekker door op een mogelijke rente verlaging. Ze handelen daar op gebakken lucht.
Ben zal misschien wel denken:
Koersen gaan nu gewoon omhoog, slechte cijfers blijven voor alsnog achterwege, dus lekker laten die rente op dit niveau.

Rente moet geen kadootje worden voor bedrijven die te inhaling zijn geweest, zo denkt de FED ook. Wie zijn billen brandt............
Die rente verlaging zou een pleistertje zijn op een zwerende en onstoken wond zijn en ik vraag me af of je dat echt moet willen?
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