Antonov « Terug naar discussie overzicht

Competition Torotrak/Antonov

9 Posts
Quantocosta
7
From The Engineer, 14 March 2002, in Automotive » On the Web Torotrak Antonov Transmission » Related Stories Not exercising the option Toyota terminates Torotrak » Home features Blood, sweat and gears Bag handling gets automated Allergic reactions A joined up future The power of conversion » Related Channels Automotive Business & Finance Blood, sweat and gears By David Fowler General Motors' decision last month not to take out an internal development licence for Torotrak's innovative infinitely variable transmission seemed like a major setback. The City certainly saw it that way, not least because of expectations raised by Torotrak itself, and its share price fell by two thirds. But the markets got it wrong, says Torotrak chief executive Maurice Martin. Torotrak, he says, never really expected the big car makers like GM to go into production with the technology themselves. 'GM conducted the best independent assessment of the technology and concluded it works. They were very complimentary about Torotrak as a company. But they said there's still work to do on the production engineering side: to reduce in size, cost and weight to make a deliverable product. These are skills we don't have: we need a car maker or tier one supplier.' Business risk GM already manufactures automatic transmissions by the million at very low cost. 'IVT represents a business risk,' says Martin. 'Without customer reaction it would be foolish for GM to manufacture in volume.' This leaves a tier one supplier, which could offer the technology to a range of car makers, as the only way to get the system into volume production. Two weeks before the GM announcement Torotrak had signed a licensing agreement with leading Japanese gearbox manufacturer Aisin. GM, it seems, played a behind-the-scenes role in persuading Aisin to sign up. 'The GM announcement looked like bad news. But we're overjoyed we've got GM to encourage a major tier one supplier to join us,' says Martin. The shift of focus to tier ones was always planned, says Martin, but Torotrak was engaged in resolving a 'chicken and egg conundrum'. 'We had a strategy to work with tier ones as soon as we could, but they were not prepared to get involved until the big car makers were convinced.' Convincing the car makers has been the focus of the company's development activities since the mid-1990s. 'For 10 years that is the loop we've wanted to close,' says Martin. A fleet of Torotrak-equipped vehicles is about to be despatched to Ford for assessment. 'I would be very surprised if Ford made any different decision to GM,' says Martin. The Premier Automotive Group - which manufactures Ford's premium brands such as Land Rover, Jaguar and Volvo - is now seen as the most likely division to adopt the technology first, given the troubles the world's second-biggest car maker is facing globally. A premium German manufacturer has also evaluated the technology and concluded it is 'concept ready'. Meanwhile, having signed up Aisin, Torotrak has abandoned contingency plans to go into limited production itself of up to 10,000 units annually for pilot sales trials. In the past month 36 staff who would have been engaged in this process have been made redundant, leaving about 100, including 60-70 engineers. A third piece of the jigsaw is tier two bearing supplier Koyo Seiko, which is expected to make the variator. One-to-one basis Martin remains reluctant to suggest a date when Torotrak is likely to reach the market, but stresses that the firm has enough money to continue to fund development until 2010. In addition, the cash raised in the company's flotation in 1998 enabled it to fund the most recent, 'series 3' phase of development itself. This means it can go public with the results, and it plans to let the press drive Torotrak-equipped cars for the first time later this spring. In previous phases it had worked on a one-to-one basis with car makers so that the results were confidential.The target market remains, initially, pick-ups and four-wheel drive 'sport utility vehicles' in the US. These form 50 per cent of the vehicle market in the States, though they are essentially light trucks. Because they are heavy on fuel, they are likely to be hit hard if proposals go ahead to tighten regulations that govern car makers' 'fleet average' fuel economy. hence they are likely to benefit from Torotrak's fuel economy gains, said to be at least 15 per cent. In addition, because such vehicles are built on separate chassis, the problems of packaging which would apply to a typical front-wheel drive saloon do not arise. Torotrak says series 3 brought about big improvements in the technology, notably on the control software. This can be used to give the transmission different characteristics, says Torotrak licensing director Geoff Soar. Initially it is likely to be designed to mimic the feel of a conventional torque converter type transmission, but once market acceptance has been achieved the control strategy could be changed to gain even better fuel economy by letting the engine run at optimum revs for more of the time. But the engine will not then respond to pressing the accelerator in the way the driver expects, and it will take some time for the market to get used to this. ****How worried is Torotrak about the competition from Antonov? 'We don't really see them as a competitor,' says Martin. 'We're looking at different markets; we have different benefits which Antonov doesn't provide. We both claim improved economy, but in engineering terms Torotrak offers a system that opens the future. Antonov is still a stepped ratio automatic transmission. It's ingenious and low cost, but unsophisticated.' Weeks after GM declined a development licence from Torotrak, Antonov sealed a deal with Honda which will allow the car maker to go into production with the Antonov transmission across its product range. Antonov had been working with Honda since 1992; in 1996 Honda began an internal development programme which led to last month's production licence. But now Honda has committed itself other car makers will not be far behind, expects Antonov managing director Mike Emmerson. 'All the car makers are looking at every technology. Honda isn't years ahead of the rest. We expect the Honda licence will cause an ****acceleration of the evaluation process by other companies.' Evaluation is also under way by GM, Ford, Suzuki, ZF, Aisin, Matra, and BMW. In fact, the company now has three production licences out. NZWL, a gearbox supplier to DaimlerChrysler, is expecting to supply the Antonov drive for the Corbin Merlin, a three-wheeled US commuter car which is just going into production. Corbin projects sales of 30,000 vehicles annually by 2005. A third production licence has been taken by India's Gajra, potentially for an Indian version of a Suzuki car. Meanwhile Antonov has set up a strategic alliance with tier one supplier Luk, with the intention of adapting its transmission control systems to the Antonov gearbox. Easier task Though Antonov seems to have made much more progress than Torotrak, it also has an easier task. The Antonov transmission is in effect a simplified version of existing technology. All its parts can be made on any existing transmission production line, so manufacturers such as Honda can go into production with little risk. Unusually for the car market, where new
[verwijderd]
0
[verwijderd]
1
Dit stuk geeft mooi de ongelijkheid van de strijd tussen Torotrak en Antonov aan. Dit zit'm in dit ene zinnetje: 'We both claim improved economy, but in engineering terms Torotrak offers a system that opens the future. Antonov is still a stepped ratio automatic transmission. It's ingenious and low cost, but unsophisticated.' Wanneer je kijkt naar de lange ontwikkeltijd binnen de autoindustrie (Het Antonovproces blijkt zeer snel te zijn verlopen en heeft minimaal 10 jaar geduurd)is het volgens mij ee cruciale denkfout te veronderstellen dat de industrie zit te wachten op een sophisticated system. Hiervoor zijn de bedrijven veel te conservatief. Een product dient degelijk en betrouwbaar te zijn; per defenitie toepasbare begrippen op een unsophisticated product. Op deze manier prijst Tototrak zich uit de markt door niet realistische toekomstverwachtingen. Ik zit er niet mee....
[verwijderd]
0
Wess, Both Torotrak and Antonov, of course, claim their products are superior. But there is the suggestion that many drivers are uncomfortable without fixed gears, even in an automatic. Weltrusten.....Frank.
[verwijderd]
0
Ik wist niet dat TOROTRAK zo ver achterlag op Antonov, en hierbij opgeteld hebben ze de ontwikkeling ook niet in eigen hand; 'GM conducted the best independent assessment of the technology and concluded it works. They were very complimentary about Torotrak as a company. But they said there's still work to do on the production engineering side: to reduce in size, cost and weight to make a deliverable product. These are skills we don't have: we need a car maker or tier one supplier.' Het blijkt dat het produkt nog verder ontwikkelt moet worden (grootte/gewicht/kosten; geen flauwekul!), maar bij deze verdere ontwikkelingen zijn ze afhankelijk van de tiers (componenten leveranciers voor de autofabrinkanten), dus ze zijn compleet afhankelijk van buitenstaanders. Dan heb ik meer vertrouwen in Antonov, die zelf in staat is om een produkt door te ontwikkelen en aan te bieden. Gaat nog lang duren met die IVT... Henk
[verwijderd]
0
En ook wat meer duidelijkheid over de relatie met LUK: het gereedmaken (aanpassen/op maat maken) van hun transmission control system voor de antonovtransmissies. En wetende dat LUK levert aan bijna de gehele autoindustrie, kan dit samenwerkingsverband nog wel eens heel leuk gaan uitpakken!
[verwijderd]
0
Berichten zijn al van vóór 8 februari ...... Beetje vreem verhaal. Ze hebben wel 36 mensen ontslagen omdat GM geen productie licentie neemt. Bovendien: het is géén productie overeenkomst die ze gesloten hebben met Aisin oftewel Equos, maar een ontwikkelings overeenkomst. Ze zijn dus nog lang niet zover om te produceren. Aisin zelf heeft nog nooit complete transmissies gebouwd, alleen maar onderdelen voor transmissies en dan ook nog maar alleen voor Toyota. "However, commercial considerations have led to GM's decision not to undertake any further internal development work for the forseeable future. Our strategy to build strong tier 1 supplier partnerships is already in place. Development is progressing well with Shell, Getrag and Koyo Seiko and, in our most important recent development, has now started with Equos, the new product development division of Aisin AW, the world's largest independent automatic transmission manufacturer." With the announcement that Equos has taken a licence, Torotrak can now focus on assisting the world’s largest independent automatic transmission supplier in its development of IVT products for the global automotive market. This work will carry on alongside existing programmes with our other tier 1 licensees, Getrag and Koyo Seiko, and other suppliers who are heavily involved in developing the technology, such as Shell who are developing the traction fluid used in the IVT. "
[verwijderd]
0
Dus: wanneer had GM opgezegd????? En 2 weken daarna contract getekend???? 15/01/02 New agreement signed Torotrak plc is pleased to announce the signing of an agreement commencing with the evaluation by Equos Research Co Ltd of Japan of Torotrak's Infinitely Variable Transmission ("IVT") technology. Under the terms of the agreement, it is planned that Equos will begin the technology evaluation process with the secondment to the UK of engineers to work alongside the Torotrak team, now focussed on research and development of systems and components for the production versions of the IVT. Equos is the new product development subsidiary of Aisin AW, the world's largest Tier 1 manufacturer of automatic transmissions with output of over 3.5 million units per annum. Aisin AW sells its products to many of the world's leading car companies. Torotrak has developed the IVT technology for passenger cars and light trucks giving up to 28% fuel economy improvement with corresponding reductions in hydrocarbon and CO2 emissions together with improved driveability and cost advantages. The technology is licensed to 8 major automotive companies including GM and Ford. Maurice Martin, chief executive, said: "I am delighted that we have signed this agreement which marks the achievement of our long held objective to work with a Tier 1 automatic transmission manufacturer in addition to the OEMs such as GM and Ford. Torotrak's IVT will benefit from the production skills and reputation that such companies, and particularly Aisin, have earned over many decades. Torotrak's flagship project, the Series 3 IVT for sport utility vehicles and light trucks, has succeeded in demonstrating to the OEMs that the IVT delivers the benefits the automotive industry needs. We have world-class strategic partners including Shell, Koyo Seiko and Getrag involved in the ongoing development of the Torotrak IVT for production. We have been working very hard over the last year to ensure that Aisin AW becomes a key part of that strategy." Enquiries: Maurice Martin, chief executive, Torotrak plc Rebecca Joyce, finance director, Torotrak plc +44 (0)1772 900900
9 Posts
Aantal posts per pagina:  20 50 100 | Omhoog ↑

Meedoen aan de discussie?

Word nu gratis lid of log in met uw e-mailadres en wachtwoord.

Direct naar Forum

Markt vandaag

 AEX
913,56  +0,17  +0,02%  16 mei
 Germany40^ 18.689,80 -0,26%
 BEL 20 3.995,10 -0,85%
 Europe50^ 5.054,38 -0,36%
 US30^ 39.884,50 0,00%
 Nasd100^ 18.562,90 0,00%
 US500^ 5.297,76 0,00%
 Japan225^ 38.553,90 0,00%
 Gold spot 2.378,09 -0,35%
 EUR/USD 1,0867 -0,16%
 WTI 78,78 +0,50%
#/^ Index indications calculated real time, zie disclaimer

Stijgers

Vastned +2,88%
INPOST +2,77%
RENEWI +1,99%
Aperam +1,96%
JDE PEET'S +1,95%

Dalers

SIGNIFY NV -5,53%
Avantium -5,52%
EBUSCO HOLDING -3,28%
IMCD -3,22%
NX FILTRATION -2,37%

EU stocks, real time, by Cboe Europe Ltd.; Other, Euronext & US stocks by NYSE & Cboe BZX Exchange, 15 min. delayed
#/^ Index indications calculated real time, zie disclaimer, streaming powered by: Infront